Debating Gay Marriage with Jethro

Jab, our favorite guest blogger, came to me with this blog idea after an exchange of words with an old friend on Gay Marriage and the ever-popular "Are you born gay vs. is it a choice" and I said "Go for it!"

After you read the blog, your assignment is to pass this along to EVERYONE you know and have them comment on it. It's an open forum folks...let's get to talk'n. Enjoy!

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It seems like every 18 months a new community website pops up. Twitter, Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, Friendster, Six Degrees (anyone remember Six Degrees?). I gave up on the constant switching a long time ago. But recently I got back on the horse and joined one of the current sites and reconnected with many people, old and new.

One of which is the older brother of a childhood friend. I haven’t seen this guy in 20 years. Honestly I was surprised he was still alive. He’s one of those guys you would expect to die suddenly right after saying, “hey y’all! Watch this!” He was the first person to get me drunk. He was 17 and his brother and I were 12. At his brother’s birthday party he spiked the punch, got us drunk, turned off the lights and put in a tape of “The Exorcist”. Then went to the bathroom to puke his guts out. A real country buffoon. But there he was, now living in Florida……with a family.

He’d been watching me having political debates with others online and wanted a piece of the action. What you are about to read is an insight to a mind as twisted and paper thin as you can find. I’ve added my thoughts at the time as it goes and shortened the debate to the key points (believe it or not) and the deeper you read the stranger he gets. It’s like riding the most unsafe roller coaster in the world. Hold for the boom at the end.


Tampa Boy: What would you like to debate about? I am sure you have a different opinion about something. You first, pick a bone...

!Jab!: Mmmmmmmm, fresh meat! Let's see, I've got a good debate going about gay rights right now with another friend on here. Or would you prefer to discuss Obama vs. Bush? Or something else you may have in mind?

Tampa Boy: Just so you know I am against gay marriage...they have their unions and that should be enough. I don’t believe they should get the same rights as a heterosexual couple. I am positive that the constitution had nothing in their mind about homosexuals being equal in the eyes of God.
Peace

(At this point, I’m thinking we’ll be discussing the differences between Civil Unions and Marriage. I’m feeling good here.)

!Jab!: I hear you. I am for absolute equal rights. There's nothing in the constitution that says the govt’s job is to enforce biblical scripture. That said, whether that comes with unions or "marriage" is just one part of it. "Marriage" is a church institution, does not involve govt mandated rights. I know most gay people want the legal term "marriage" or nothing at all. I say take what you can get then maneuver from the inside.

(And that’s should be all there is to say. Right? WRONG.)


Tampa Boy: With all due respect we do share absolute equal rights...all races and religions are equal...homosexual lifestyle is not a race, nor a religion. As for the govt not enforcing scripture, sorry to tell you that this nation was born out of Christianity...Its in the Pledge of Allegiance, on the dollar bill. Without God this nation would be similar to many others. We certainly would not have the little bit of rights we do have had God not been the foundation of the USA.
Peace

(Seriously? Is it possible the country bumpkin has found Jesus?....NAWWWWWW!)

!Jab!: I'm talking about marriage rights, not individual ones. Insurance, benefits, adoption, family recognition, inheritance...
Didn't say that God wasn't a foundation that the US was built on. My point is the constitution does not say to enforce everything the bible says. That would be Israel and the Middle East. We have Church and State for a reason. Once again, I don't think anyone should force a church to do anything against their beliefs. I'm talking about legal status.

Tampa Boy: Then instead of circling this question, I'd like to find out why it is you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights of a "married" heterosexual couple, especially in this country. Homosexuals can be legally married in Europe and many other countries.
Peace

(So now I’m thinking, easy softball question. All I gotta do is knock this one outta the park and circle the bases to my cheering fans!)

!Jab!: Simple, they are tax paying American adult citizens just like you. If two taxpaying American adult citizens want to engage in a committed relationship, have at it. And before you bring in "what if a brother and sister want to marry", the laws against that are based on the medical dangers of any children they may have. Not the case here, obviously. Then you ask, "do you think they should adopt and expose the child to....". Sure, why not. I have friends that have adopted and they have wonderful, educated, well adjusted children. That child won't “turn gay” any more than you would.

I understand where you are coming from, it's just the perspective from where you look at it. Think of it this way. 40 years ago an interracial couple faced the same scrutiny, worse even. Facing death threats and bodily harm. Look at it today. Interracial couples are on frickin TV. Our president is a bi-racial man. It's an evolution of society's perspective. That's all.

(Aaaaannnd THAT settles that! So moving on to…..what? You wanna say MORE God stuff?)

Tampa Boy: Taxpaying homosexuals get the use of bridges, airport security, a clean environment etc, the same as any non married individual receives. I don’t agree that a lifestyle choice should offer them the same advantages.
Take for example polygamists. Do you think because there are several wives and children that these should receive the same benefits? Should they receive grants and tax credits based on the size of their family? Perhaps on the basis of your argument they do. Yet our government declares that an illegal union. Then take felons who have spent time and served their sentence. Do you think these folks should have the right to own a gun just like all other tax-payers? What about people who have committed crimes against children. They too are tax payers. Should they receive all the same rights as you or I?
Peace

(...oh no, it gets better.)

!Jab!: Let me then add "law abiding". That eliminates all of your examples involving criminal activity. But being gay is not a crime. You're comparing gay people to people that have broken the law in violent ways and are then attempting to gain the tools to break the law again. I’m talking about people only wanting to love another person unconditionally. You bring up "lifestyle", and its not. It’s just what you are. The only "lifestyle choice" is being a slut or in a committed relationship, no different than you. Polygamists...that’s a yes and no comparison. It's the least comparable because it is the purest example of a lifestyle choice of any we've mentioned, complete opposite of being gay. But it is the most same in how the law treats both groups. I will say they are both illegal for the same reason, religion. That doesn't mean it's not a reason worth taking into consideration. Look at murder and robbery. But for me, there has to be some other reason than JUST religion to justify the law.

(Wait for it……)

Tampa Boy: Sooner or later I knew I would have to say this. I believe being a homosexual is a choice. It’s a choice to be different, this is why it is a lifestyle. Swinging is an alternative lifestyle as well. They are law abiders...should they get rights for that? Should they be able to unify in marriage, 2 couples or a couple and a single woman? What about 3 men joined in marriage? You see where this will lead.

I think it has do mostly with moral decay...Until the majority of Americans accept homosexual behavior as normal within the parameters of social acceptance it will continue to be scrutinized. That’s as you referred to as the evolution of society. Every generation of old people say the same thing..."the world is going to hell". There is no doubt that our morals have decayed over the decades. Very little, if any of that is due to religion. It’s mostly due to the lack of close families.
Go to Amsterdam and get a gay marriage. Prostitution is legal, drugs are virtually legal and moral decay is rampant. This is why it is socially acceptable to be a homosexual there. That’s why I could see gay marriage in Las Vegas possibly first.
Peace

(Here it comes………)

!Jab!: Well you're right in one thing for sure. Line of acceptance is usually drawn in the belief that it’s either genetic or choice. That's basically it. How did you reach that decision? I think until you have a chance to know a person, a decision like that doesn't have all the information. So how did you reach your decision?

(………………nnnnnow.)

Tampa Boy: As far as choice is concerned there are only a very small fraction of gay people that had a gender change at birth. I am talking about the small amount of people born with both sexes, or the doctor not being able to tell which sex they were correctly. Even with that I still believe it’s a choice.

(WHAT??)

What makes a person gay? Is it thoughts of being gay, is it attraction to members of the same sex, is it having one sexual experiment or even two. I think not. Being a homosexual is making the choice to live in a relationship with the same sex. It is a daily routine of having same sex partners...

(HANG ON!!!!)

Don’t you know that all men and women have at one time or another been attracted or aroused by members of the same sex? Its called animal instinct. This is what demonstrates the difference between man and beast. We control our behaviors. We make the choice to not live by instinct but rather through the conscious decision making process.

(MY BRAIN IS BEGINNING TO ACHE!! MUST….. FIGHT……THROUGH IT!)

Lets give an example of a 15 year old boy living in a foster home.

(OH GOD NO, NOT THE FOSTER HOME STORY!!)

He has never had sex with anyone but he tells his foster parents he thinks he is gay. Do you believe he is gay, even though he has never been with a man? If the foster parent simply accepts the boys feelings as a fact and promotes that lifestyle, he will no doubt turn gay. However, if his foster parents realize that he may be suffering a gender crisis based on physical abuse, or perhaps what someone in his family has done, they may be able to talk to him and find out that he is confused. Kids go through this much more often than is known.

Sometimes a boy is sexually abused when young by a member of the family having the same sex. Why is it you think this guy who was violated at an age of innocence chose to go with that lifestyle. It was all he knew. It came from foundations of his youth put on him. As he got older instead of resisting he chose the path he was already comfortable with.

(LOSING...CONSCIOUSNESS...)

How many men have you met over time that used to have any girl they wanted. They get bored with the easy prey and must move on to something else to get their fix of sexual excitement. I have had 3 good friends over the years go this route. 2 of them have committed suicide. In the 2,000 years how many men who have had sexual thoughts about other men do you think there have been? How many of them made a choice to stay strait and get married and live normal lives?

(I’M JUST A BLOODY PULP AT THIS POINT)

I know I am not God, and only He can judge the hearts of these people. I just know God created Adam and Eve, not…

(KILL ME NOW)

Adam and Steve.
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Peace

!Jab!: Wow. I can honestly say I’ve never thought of it that way.


And there you have it folks, the mentality of the 40-something, Christian, country bumpkin guy that is raising children and has the ear of the Conservative movement. This is just a reminder to those that don’t get the privilege to travel around to the more rural areas of our great land. Thought your company benefits letting you include your partner meant problem solved? Thought Ellen and Ugly Betty hit the air and everything was all good, didn’t ya! No. This is the voice out there. And this is the opponent that must be defeated. Avenge my debated death. Fight on.

!Jab!

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